It's Still a Man's World

This evening Robin Knight's guests on the popular TV program Question and Answer are Sir Henry Richards, MP for South London and Minister for Social Affairs, and Susan Decker, feminist and trade union leader.
ROBIN K. ... Our next question comes from Mrs. Mary Bray. Mrs. Bray, please.
MARY B. Thank you, Robin. My question is this: 'Do your guests agree that we need to do more to give women equal opportunities with men at work?'
ROBIN K. Minister, I'm sure you have some ideas about this. Would you like to start?
HENRY R. Thank you, Robin. Well, Mrs. Bray, I'm interested in that word 'more'. I mean, there are problems for women, but I think that we can all agree that society has already done a lot. For example, the number of women in work has grown enormously. In 1955 there were more than twice as many men as women in jobs. Now there are two women for every three men at work. That's the first thing,
Mrs. Bray – the opportunity to work. It's an important freedom, isn't it? And since the 1970 law, which gave women equal pay with men, most employers have really been very reasonable and non-sexist. So I really believe that women have a great many opportunities and a great deal of protection.
ROBIN K. Thank you, Sir Henry. I'm sure, Susan, you feel a little differently about this.
SUSAN D. Thank you, yes, I do. Listen. In local government, where I work, women make up 80% of the lowest clerical grade, just 6% of the senior officers and fewer than 1% of the chief officers! And it's like that in lots of other types of work, too. So women get equal pay for the same work, yes, but the fact is, they don't usually get the same work. And that's why the national average for women's pay is only 74% of the average for men. Yes, we have the freedom to work. But what this means is the freedom to get boring, low-level jobs that are badly paid.
HENRY R. Look, there are lots of unemployed men who would love to have those boring, low-level jobs. Now, some mothers couldn't live unless they worked, I know: they have to work. But what about married mothers who mainly work to buy extra things – next year's family holiday in Spain, for example? If we gave the unemployed some of those jobs, many more families would have a better life than they have today.
SUSAN D. And the mothers would go back to real women's work, you mean?
HENRY R. Well, don't laugh. I think a mother should be with her children as much as possible.
ROBIN K. This argument is getting heated, I think. Er ... we can agree, can't we, that even now very few women get the top jobs. Why do you think this is?
HENRY R. Well, look, women are women. Like it or not, they usually get married and have babies and then they have to look after them and their homes. Now all that obviously takes women out of full-time employment. So, of course, men move up and take the top jobs.
SUSAN D. Yes, children do affect a woman's opportunities at work. But there's another thing. We – that's mothers, fathers, teachers, everybody – we all affect our children as they grow up. We condition them. We make boys behave in one way and girls in another. We make them unequal. We expect boys to be lively, energetic, rough, dirty, and noisy – in other words, to learn how to be successful in the competitive world of work... And we expect girls to play quiet games and to practice being a mother. Do parents give their daughters footballs? Do they encourage their sons to play with dolls? No! In other words we just don't train girls to expect a successful career outside the home.
HENRY R. Rubbish! It isn't conditioning – it's nature! Girls naturally want different things.
ROBIN K. Well, er ... we've very little time, so let's move on. The next question comes from...